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A little opinion...

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 8:39 AM
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About the frontage thing... I think more than change the "popular" system, a new options set for the frontage are needed. This is not because I could be somewhat affected by the change, my pics keep appearing in FrontPage and the watchers are still following my work (and I thank you so much for that :)) but because I saw a lot of people misplacing art and taking advantage of the new system, helping even more to create the odd idea of a popularity "goal/prize". I like the idea of the popular frontage because it works pretty much like a musical ranking and it was a tool to know public´s preferences: wich kind of concepts/ideas/colors/styles works better and like a test to know the effect of a specific work. Somewhat of democratic voice, that helps to know to the public a bit more.

Before you ask, NO, I don't think that the goal of an artist is to be popular and I don't think that "popular=better" I saw both as different parameters that sometimes goes hand by hand and sometimes runs each one alone, but both haves a merit, a different kind of merit but each one are still valid (one for capture popular culture and the other for artistic achievement)

What about a third, a fourth or even a fifth option for the frontage along with the classical Popular and Newest?

-Fair exposure: the new system, maybe even more focused on spotlight general non discovered artist and artworks

-Random: there is a lot of great images that will never be on surface if not appear in a random roll. I love this system in other gallery sites because even with the best "fair exposure" there is images that will remain occult. This could be a great FrontPage by default.

-Showcase new artist: for new deviants with less than 1 or 2 years in the community. That will help them to gain a place, have a specific spotlight and be able to be known and recognized. Because is not the same a dude with 5 years or more in DA that keeps lot of watchers than a people who start from the scratch.

I love DA and I know the staff is doing a great effort to do a better place, I feel part of the community, that's why I also feel to need to give my humble opinion abut it :)

-------------------------------------------------------
BTW, you can check my friend fcagno´s comic book project: The Lost Kids on his group :iconthelostkids:
:)

  • Listening to: Lana del Rey http://youtu.be/8t-I-Lqy06g
  • Reading: The Tempest - Shakespeare
  • Watching: the ants on the garden
  • Playing: TMNT: project Manhattam
  • Eating: tripasta especial
  • Drinking: Tea
Add a Comment:
 
:iconchronos-kun:
Chronos-Kun Featured By Owner May 4, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I understand what you say, and where you come from. I 100% agree with you and support these ideas. thanks for sharing.
Reply
:iconmzzazn:
MzzAzn Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2012
The new artist thing would be cool; however, as for myself, my account was active years ago for like two weeks, then I left it for almost three years and came back to it and was inspired to get into drawing. My work looked like kid's drawings at first about a year and a half ago and I feel like I improved a lot since then so I feel I'm more of a "newer" artist, but my account is very old so that's the only problem I see with the last.

I like the random tab idea! That would be very cool!!
Reply
:iconcuddlestheoctopus:
CuddlesTheOctopus Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2012
I definitely like the "Random" idea
Reply
:icontouchedvenus:
TouchedVenus Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I must say, I really like the idea of showcasing new artists. They vanish very easily amongst the sea of people who've been here for a while. :nod:
Reply
:iconwhite-eden:
white-eden Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2012
there are many people who I know of wanted to become popular. I know its impossible and hard but may want to realized why people often commission from you.

you took a lot of spotlights since, i believe, 2007? maybe early?
that people often commission you to hopefully lead them to the original source and see their works!

:iconsunrise-oasis: is a perfect example, sadly he left deviant art because one of the admins wouldn't help solve this ONE user online who has been harassing him!
I really hope you don't forget about the promise that :icondahoser: and :iconsunrise-oasis: made! I read his blog, he seems very upset!
Reply
:iconkoibutsu:
koibutsu Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2012  Student Digital Artist
there needs to be a suck filter, so we can filter out the scribbles and stick figures : D
Reply
:iconnoss91:
Noss91 Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2012   Traditional Artist
Great idea! I hope some admins would get their thumb out of their ass and look at this :)
Reply
:iconjenniferlee26:
JenniferLee26 Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2012
Love your motto about things. I agree, that it's not important for an artist to be front page popular. They should just do what they love, and not worry about who will buy it. I have run into that myself a lot. People see my work and ask me, "Why can't you make a living from it? It's really good!" I just smile thank them and then say, "Well. If I made money from it. Then it would be more of a chore then something I love to do.". They just look at me in a strange way and never understanding about it. Yes, I have made money from my work. Usually it's at odd times, and I do love that. It makes me feel good some one would want to pay me cash for my art, it makes me feel loved ^w^ On the other hand, if I had to keep putting out stuff for income, it would loose it's meaning to me. Maybe some day I could do more with it, but until now I just enjoy it.
Reply
:iconaltura-studios:
Altura-Studios Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2012
Did you get my emails and notes?
Reply
:icon3rton:
3Rton Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Welll said chihuahua dude! :)
Reply
:iconnick-sass:
Nick-Sass Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Great idea!
Reply
:iconchezza932:
Chezza932 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
good idea! :D
Reply
:iconzaebrael:
Zaebrael Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I would also like to see a better flitering system so I don't have to put in -vagina or even -fetish every time. Yes I'm cool with mature works, but I'm not cool with certain specific categories or some fandoms. Actually I just want them to update the fucking search engine system to begin with.
Reply
:iconchaosthekitty:
ChaostheKitty Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Those are good ideas, but we sadly all know how slow on the upkeep the admins are. For the most part, they could really care less what people are actually wanting on this website (example: The removal of News articles and the current journal portal when most wanted to keep the news separate from journals). Maybe if enough "popular" artists jump on their behinds, they may actually listen, but until then, keeping up with the suggestions will probably be the best bet.
Reply
:iconvulcanknight:
vulcanknight Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
It seems you're such a noble person. I hope that purpose can be accepted by the admins, and more unknown artists (like me) can be almost more viewed.

Good luck with that!
Reply
:icond-card:
D-Card Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
Thank you for posting your thoughts. I'm not a popular deviant myself, but I full heartedly agree with you and others that have mentioned this before. If I were to create a picture that ended up on the front page before the change, i'd probably feel much more honored about getting on the front page then I would now. Those are great suggestions. :D
Reply
:iconbugeishakyasarin:
BugeishaKyasarin Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm starting to not like the Popular artwork either! I had it set to Newest, but all I would ever see is glorified Myspace/Facebook-style self portraits... that's not art in my opinion. Now on Popular there's always My Little pony pictures (what is the fascination with MLP anyway? Are we all five now?) and photos of mostly-naked chicks with a whimsical title attached. I'm like, it's a blonde girl in a thong, what is artistic about that? I would definitely prefer to see work by new artists instead of the same things over and over again!
Reply
:iconxamxam:
xamxam Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
i like your idea... i've been joining a lot of groups to gain exposure ^^'
Reply
:iconzanshlou:
Zanshlou Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
I really like the fair exposure and random ideas, would give unknown artists like me a chance to get more of an audience.
Reply
:iconhylian-maiden:
hylian-maiden Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I like all of these options, especially the Fair Exposure and Showcase New Artists.
Reply
:iconphantom-shadow16:
Phantom-Shadow16 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
So you basically want to filter out your own pictures to make research easier for yourself? That way when you go to the front page to see what audiences are looking at you can have an idea of what to draw next?
Reply
:icongenzoman:
GENZOMAN Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
popular and newest are pretty much like black or white, no medium point or grey scale. I like the scenario of different options for the frontpage.
Reply
:iconphantom-shadow16:
Phantom-Shadow16 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
So the front page would be tiled and each row or column would represent the following categories random art, new artists only, popular art, and most recent? They did that on Sheezyart I think.
Reply
:iconbaroquemoon:
baroquemoon Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nonsense, Genzo! Why, each time I see the Popular section marred with poorly drawn Hetalia yaoi, I ... ... ... ... KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Reply
:iconvandalk:
vandalk Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Very good ideas, I really liked them!
Reply
:iconmokoni:
Mokoni Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Professional Artist
Suggest them to dA. I keep seeing popular stuf that's just "T&A" or something and to be honest it bothers me because I feel like the artistic integrity I once saw in the daily deviations aren't as relevant anymore D:
Reply
:iconfemmusclefan05:
femmusclefan05 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
I really like the idea of Random and New Artist Showcase
Reply
:iconmourge40k:
Mourge40k Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
Funny how the front page people seem to be thinking alike. :icontompreston: was the first person to comment on this journal, and :iconmoni158: has been suggesting a system similar to yours for the past few weeks now. You think the higher ups on this site would take notice...
Reply
:iconkedrona:
Kedrona Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Student Writer
Newest users would just lead those who have been here and have been looking for help the longest down a frustrating path.

I want to know how to get better and have more watchers, and I've been here a while.
Reply
:iconhybridgothica:
hybridgothica Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
:thumbsup:
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
We have random systems in place: [link] [link] [link]

I can't say I support the "popular" sorting because of how popularity and quality are associated in our brain, but not in the algorithm. Simply put, you can easily fill the popular frontpage with simple sketches simply because of how large your followship is already, and it's relatively easy to get at least small popularity boosts through fanart because of our current tagging system.

I prefer the systems YouTube and Pixiv have put in place. YouTube showcases a few of hot videos, but the viewer is generally guided through related videos or the activity of the people they have subscribed to. This system combines a good degree of popularity randomness and relevance, making it quick for the viewer to find what they want while also discovering new stuff on the way they might want to open in a background tab - starting the maze. It's because of how YouTube polished the old tagging system in combination with Google's data mining and user analysis, so it's not something for every site.
Pixiv has a similar system, but it's less based on tags and focuses more on "Other people that liked this also liked...", which is giving a stronger voice to popular images with more favs, but is countered by the default search algorithm that sorts from newest to oldest. It also suggests similar tags based on common ones between the images on the current search page and suggests similar artists to the ones you watched based on common tags and watchers.
Other places have also advanced on the tagging system by making them at least partially editable by users (and rewarding them for helpful work), kind of like a wiki. There's also different approaches of how to counter abuse and vandalism that's made possible with this method, but generally openly displayed tags with a fair amount of exposure automatically suggests different searches for users without any complex algorithms needed. The uploader does most of the work here. There's also plenty of online galleries that give you the option to automatically load X more results as you get closer to the bottom of the page, resulting in a smooth searching experience if you know how to use the middle mouse button.

Overall deviantART's searching and interconnectivity systems are out of date and they prioritize shiny features like muro or stash over keeping the infrastructure everyone uses up to date.
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
TL;DR Learn from YouTube, Pixiv and modern online galleries in general.
Reply
:iconnffanart:
nffanart Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Student General Artist
These are very good ideas! A lot of people who get on the front page are incredibly talented, but others are just doing what's popular to get publicity. It makes it difficult for some of the better unknown artists to be seen. Your suggested changes can really work out in everyone's favor!
Reply
:iconabsolute-krysis:
Absolute-Krysis Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012   General Artist
That really is a great idea. I hope something like that gets implemented.
Reply
:iconnaarii0015:
naarii0015 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Professional General Artist
:salute:
Reply
:iconpeteyxkid:
PeteyXkid Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I agree with you, since most artist i see on the first page are more like opportunists, they take it as a device of popularity and such stuff.
Reply
:iconhao-76:
Hao-76 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hum... you're right DA's front page need more Options

I love the way of the "new artist showcase" parameter. New Deviant can be really talented and it's a good thing to see new idea, fresh art from an unknown artist.

But in the other hand some deviant want to be popular (This can be a springboard for a job) popular is not = better popular = Appreciate by other. DA have to keep it popular front page .

And yes genzo can't be affected ! Why ? It's simply. Even if you can't watch genzo, i'll be at the top of the list !! It's like people pray god but they can't see him !! .... Is genzo God ? OF COURSE YES =p
Reply
:iconbirdzgoboom:
birdzgoboom Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree, this is a great idea. It always seems like the same artists are on the front page (when set to "Popular" ), and it would be nicer for other artists to have a chance to be seen... and possibly get some favs and watchers, too. It'll make things more balanced.... and people would finally get discovered.
Reply
:iconmasantaq:
MasantaQ Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think you should send a message to a dA administrator with these ideas. They've probably already heard people say similar things but the more times it's brought, the more likely it is that they'll do something about it.
Reply
:iconpiccassorevived:
piccassorevived Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
this opinion is correct^^
Reply
:iconshadowulf1:
Shadowulf1 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree. I might even like to see updates by a favorite artist!

Like one I choose specifically (such as yourself), or the random work of any other artist whose work I've faved.

I think those would also be fun options for frontage settings.
Reply
:icondragonux:
dragonux Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I agree with you. :iconyeahplz: :salute:
Reply
:iconshadowulf1:
Shadowulf1 Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:handshake:
Reply
:icondragonux:
dragonux Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Student Digital Artist
indeed. :iconpoplz:
Reply
:iconshadowulf1:
Shadowulf1 Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:)
Reply
:iconsin-nombre:
Sin-nombre Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Siempre he querido alguno de esos sistemas, por eso mismo, paso muy poco tiempo browseando, y más tiempo en unos grupos especificos, en el que puedo ver algunos artistas realmente buenos, que no tienen el espacio para mostrarse por x motivos.

Por eso mismo también trabajo en un par de revistas digitales; La gente que uno llega a conocer, es increiblemente gratificante tanto en terminos personales como artisticos.

Manda un mail a los admins, haber si pescan la opinión (= (no te sugiero los foros, porque son tremendamente destructivos los que acechan en esas zonas, sin ser necesariamente admins o por lo menos, constructivos)
Reply
:iconmaj0rmaremolester:
Maj0rMareMolester Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Those are great ideas. I'd stay on the random page like all the time xD
Reply
:iconswanofwar:
SwanofWar Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Professional Writer
Aye, the trending on the front page can get a little annoying at times, but some of the popular art really is impressive :D
Reply
:iconmisumizu:
MisuMizu Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo :) espero que el staff lea tu opinión y se lo plantee seriamente.
Me encantaría que lo llevasen a cabo que ya me he cansado de ver ropa interior femenina aleatoriamente... Puedo abrir mi cajón y verla cuando y cuanto quiera, según muchos ya estaría viendo arte LOL es broma

(Modo fangirl :XD: Adoro tus trabajos, tu estilo es impresionante)
Reply
:iconphaustoart:
phaustoart Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Totalmente de acuerdo, la critica es una parte importante del proceso de aprendizaje para los nuevos artistas que desean compartir su trabajo con el mundo.
Reply
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